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I had the absolute pleasure of having Dr Gabby on my podcast Rebellious Reinvention.
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00:11
Hi, Gabby. Thank you so much for being here. I wanted to give everybody a quick intro before we really get into it. Gabrielle Palichy, PhD. Dr. Gabby is the head of provider relations at Third Wave, a trusted research-based psychedelic education community platform. We love Third Wave. Dr. Gabby completed her doctoral work and transformational studies at the California Institute of Integrated Integral Studies with a dissertation on healers and studied plant
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with Indigenous healers in New Mexico and Guatemala. She has been a university professor of integrative and holistic medicine since 2007. Her first book, which I'm so excited to receive, I just ordered it, All This Healing Is Killing Me is now available on Amazon. Congratulations. So just thank you so much for spending your time with me and offering what you do to the world. I can't wait to dig in.
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Thanks so much for having me. I know it's like a bit of a mouthful all of the things that describe my personal and professional history because I've been a nomad and I've been exploring a lot of different things like psychedelics and all the different healing modalities and Traveling to all the countries to work with different people But I connected with you because I just love your vibe. I think I sent you a message
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It's so funny because I think you sent that on LinkedIn and I was just like, but I love who you are and your vibe. And I've been watching your work from afar because my friend Julie from Psychedelic Women has told me about you and I was like, ah, it resonates. Thank you so much. I love it. Yeah. And what a great name for a podcast, Rebellious Reinvention. That's so kick ass. I love it. It is kick ass.
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too. And I didn't, you know, it wasn't even intentionally psychedelic because I, that's just like who I am and where I've come from and like my reinventions in my career. And then it's so cool meeting people as I moved into the psychedelic space. First of all, I've been in psychedelics for 20 years into them and working with them, but I didn't know this space existed. And then to meet all these amazing women who've done the same thing and
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it and just rebelliously, relentlessly reinventing their careers and positioning themselves however the hell they want has been like, I found my people. I found my people. Right? I'm sure you're going to test. There's a world where it all collides. Yeah. Were these transformational butterflies, right? That keep coming up with new, bigger,
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process, but this ongoing process, but it's like a really beautiful unfolding. It's such an evolution. It's such an unfolding. So thank you again. And I just can't wait to dig in because you're just, you seem so rad. How did you get here? What is happening in your world? You just released this book. How does that feel? First of all, you've released your first book and it's a memoir. I mean, don't we all want to write a memoir? And you're
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And you did it. It's an emotional roller coaster. I'm not going to lie. You know, like it's been a really long journey of writing. I wrote the first draft in 2007. I wrote the second draft in 2013. I wrote the third draft during the pandemic and then did an edit last year. So it's been like a 15 year process of like capturing the stories, editing the stories, finding the themes, you know, putting something out in the world that like I could be really proud of. So it's been a really long journey. And
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Of course, like the day that I put it out, like family and friends are like texting and DMing and I'm like trying to do my normal life. I'm like in Whole Foods shopping, but I'm like crying in Whole Foods because I'm like, I'm getting all these messages. I'm so proud of you. And then, you know, there's just the like anticipation of like how people are going to respond to it.
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me for my whole life don't know these stories and I was I was secretly worried that people would like me less after the first book. Just like you know just like a mindset thing but like obviously the opposite is true and so you know there's that that process of just overcoming all your limiting beliefs about your work and who you are and you know will people still love me
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read my story. So it's been a very emotional journey. I mean, vulnerability is the key to connection, but it's also one of the most terrifying things to actually do is to be that vulnerable and that honest. So I can imagine and just even for me, I create short form content for social media. And by the time it goes up, and people are texting you that it's impactful, and it's proud, like you said, you're just like going
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about your life and like you may be having an existential crisis in Whole Foods. I don't know whatever is happening in your world. And then everyone's like, I'm proud of you. You're touching my soul and my heart and thank you for saying it. And it comes in at all angles. So I completely understand that roller coaster that you're on. Trust me. And it's not even like with a memoir, just with short form content on social media or a podcast. Right? Yeah.
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of your backstory and how you arrived in this world of psychedelics and into this space of writing a memoir and working with these indigenous healers from all over the world. You were a model at age 20 and you were living in New York City and you're from Scranton, PA. How did this all unfold? What was that healing journey like? Well, I wrote a book about it. So the book is full of all this healing.
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Well, the book is called All This Healing Is Killing Me. And it's like tongue in cheek, right? It's like all this healing is killing me because the whole journey has been about healing and healing is really hard. And I think there's this misconception that like healing is, you know, easy and fluffy and it's going to a spa day and it's like, you know, self care and like, that's like some of it.
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arduous warrior work at the core. Like if you're if you're really excavating, you know, all the things that are holding you back and generational trauma and you know, all the all the experiences, right? It's really it's really warrior work. And and my warrior work started like as soon as I came into the world that my parents both had addictions and mental illness. There was domestic violence in
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And so I like, I stay in the book, like I was burning when I came out of the womb, like I was already doing that work. And initially, like as a teen, I gravitated towards fashion and modeling, because I just wanted to escape, I just wanted to be pretty and popular and travel the world and not deal with life. But life just kept coming at me and kept pursuing me.
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needed to dig in and figure out how to not only survive but thrive with all of that and so started engaging in a lot of therapeutic work and I studied psychology in my undergrad and I was doing different trainings in yoga and meditation and started working in wellness and ultimately in my 30s wrote a dissertation about women healers and I looked at women that were practicing
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and Africa and Asia and South America. And that was like the first time my world really opened up to all the indigenous medicines in all of the different cultures. But I didn't touch psychedelics. Psychedelics to me was too close to drugs, was too close to addiction, was too close to mental illness in my family system. And I thought like, if I did a psychedelic drug, I would become, you know, crazy
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I just stayed really far away from that. And it wasn't until a few years ago when I was working with some healers in New Mexico and Guatemala that I started microdosing, psilocybin, peyote, different things, and really feeling the regenerative properties of psychedelics and the way that I felt supported in my nervous system and the way it enhanced my mood that I thought like, oh, wow, like I've had a real fear and misconception around psychedelics
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And I don't have to be scared of these plants and these medicines. And then that just launched me to like this whole other journey of exploration. And so what led you into the path of even studying these women and writing a dissertation like that? If you were so was it, is it like at the moth to the flame type of thing? You were like, what were you trying to unpack and understand where this like your parent, your own parents addiction and mental health issues came from? Yeah.
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lot of serendipity involved. When my mother died, I had a spiritual mystical experience of being able to communicate with her in non physical form, which for 21 year old is like super weird. It was kind of like an acid trip without acid. But it meant that I had some abilities, some like empathic abilities and some special abilities that for years, even for like 10 years
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lean into my gifts, explore my gifts, even tell anybody that I had these gifts. But the universe just kept providing different mentors and different healers and role models that shared their gifts of healing with me. And little by little, I realized that if I was going to walk the path of a healer, it was going to be important to understand that path and to understand the lineage and the context
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history of being a woman with healing abilities. And so I started to research women all throughout history going back 10,000 years who have been midwives and medicine women and looked at the whole history of the witch hunts and why women were persecuted for practicing these medicines and how there was a reemergence of women coming into medicine again. And
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up and I just kept pursuing it because it was so satisfying. That's so beautiful. I just, I had this, I did this LSD trip about three or four weeks ago in this old home from the 1800s. And I had this, so I come from Native American and,
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Spaniard and I can trace that lineage back to colonialization. I can, both my grandfathers on my mother's and father's side were historians. And so there was a lot of information that I could follow and trace back. And so I had a lot of anger and resentment towards all these different parts of my lineage while simultaneously embracing other parts like the Native American and the indigenous and the healer.
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me. And so anyways, I'm here on this acid trip in this old home from the 1800s. And this home has a ton of Native American artifacts in it. The family who owns it collects these pieces. And so while I was having this experience, this macrodose experience, I danced with this home from the 1800s. And I began to think about the women who'd walked this floor and
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And I opened the door to let some cool air in. And as I opened up the door and I looked out, I just began flooding with tears and I experienced the collective consciousness of women's emotions. Like you're saying, like the healers of the world, the witch hunts, the longing for marriage, the longing for children, the longing for partnership, the hoping they'll come home, the hoping your children don't die or experiencing grief and death, right? All these different paths women specifically can take.
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profound. And so I've just been more and more on this journey of discovering these women's stories, these modern women's stories and how we're all living it. We're so blessed that we have the time and space and we're not in survival. We're not literally hunters and gatherers anymore to have the opportunity to heal our lineage and change the trajectory
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just to have the space to take psychedelics, right? And to travel, such a luxury where we're at. Such a privilege. Such a privilege. Such a privilege, yeah, an incredible privilege. And we are standing on the shoulders of giants. And I had a similar kind of experience with Aya the second time I did Aya. I just kept asking her like, why am I so emotional? Because I've had more emotion than I can hold in my body for my whole life. And it was like, why?
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Why so many feelings and I said to me you're feeling all the feelings that the women who came before you couldn't feel Mmm, and I was like, oh god Exactly exactly Just why my book is called all this healing is killing me. It's like come on We have such privilege and such Responsibility, you know, we're honoring so many that came before us and it's a lot of work
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what I'm doing. It's a lot of work, you know, as well to do that integration. So I hear you, I feel you. Yeah. And so what did you tell me about what led you? I'm just so curious for myself, what led you to end up working with the women or the healers in New Mexico and Guatemala? And what did you learn with that? Um, with that perspective, working so closely with them? What did that look
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And the pandemic started with me just being like mad at the world and why is all this happening and we're destroying the planet and blah, blah, blah. And so I spent the first couple months, as I mentioned, like finishing the book. And then I was like, okay, what do I do now? And I had a friend that was going to Puerto Rico to build an Earthship. And I was like, I'm coming with you. And she's like, you're coming with me. And I'm like, yeah, I'm coming with you to Puerto Rico.
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sustainable home built out of tires and trash and it's completely off-grid and we build them in disaster communities, areas affected by hurricanes and other things like that. I did this program for a few weeks and then I continued on to New Mexico to do their academy to learn more about not only the Earthships but about permaculture and about the planet in general.
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And that just became the catalyst for this like two year journey of living on farms all over the world, studying, doing a permaculture certification, doing an herbalism certification, just following my intuition and just kind of following wherever the path was leading to kind of learn about all these practices and all of these tools, which I'm actually writing a book about that now. So I'm sort of- I was going to say that's a whole other field of study that needs to be on earth.
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Yeah. So I'm writing that now. So hopefully I'll be sending that to you next year. But yeah, one of the places that I serendipitously landed was a very small farm outside of Taos, New Mexico in Arroyo Seco. And there was this woman and for 50 years she's been doing healing work combining
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all these different modalities together. She specializes in cancer and different kinds of terminal illness. And we were working with peyote and I had never seen peyote. I had never taken peyote. I didn't- Isn't it so beautiful? Yes. Yes. It's magic. It's magic. It's so beautiful. I've had the opportunity to sit and clean peyote and grow peyote and pick peyote and just to
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It's one of the most beautiful, because ayahuasca is made, mushrooms I think are also inherently really beautiful and so poetic and watching the mycelium grow and all the things, right? But peyote to me is just divine. It's a perfect whole thing that naturally grows in this environment. And although it takes a really long time to grow, it's like our little succulents.
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propagating them so easily as long as they're in the correct environment. So I just find them so mystical and amazing. I totally agree. It sounds like we had a very similar experience because I was just like taking off the little pieces of bark and cleaning them in the water and we were dehydrating them and they just had like such a friendly energy and my medicine woman would be like, my medicine would be like rub, rub her on your body.
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succulent. And she'd be like, isn't that fun? Isn't it great? And, and then we would take small pieces and we would suck on them while we were working, which is something the natives have done for generations, which I guess you would technically call it like micro dosing peyote, although that's not the kind of language that they use. And again, there was just this feeling of lightness and happiness. And, and so that was like my first experience with anything. And that was really
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thing for me, even the cleaning of the peyote is a ceremony in itself and it's a prayer in itself. And I think that's like, I mean, so is I, I wasca when they're creating the brew, but I just appreciated so much about like the whole experience of, of picking it and cleaning it and praying over it and taking a little bit of it. And you're like vibrating the whole time, like, cause you're touching it and you're taking a little bit of it. Right. So good. Yes. Yes.
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So yeah, so that was the beginning. And then it was just off to the races from there. I was doing my training in herbalism in Guatemala. I was at Lake Atitlan, which is this volcanic lake. And it's a very powerful place where a lot of people come to learn about permaculture and earthworks and medicines and things like that.
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learning about all the plant medicines, like not just psychedelic plant medicines, like we were learning about all the flowers and tobacco and plants and mushrooms and really the whole kind of spectrum of all of the different kinds of plant medicine. And then as part of that training, we had the opportunity to do some microdosing with mushrooms, which I felt ready because of the experience that I had had with peyote. And so I started microdosing
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months, just to see what it was like. When I was younger, when I was in my 20s, and I was really struggling with my mental health journey, I tried all the meds. I tried Prozac and Klonopin and Paxil. I tried all the meds. I know what that feels like in my body. I know that synthetic feeling, and I know that dependency feeling of having that stuff in my body.
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consistently, I was doing like one day on one day off, I felt personally the benefits of an anti depressed and anti anxiety effect without the feeling that I had of being on meds when I was younger. And I felt like it was regenerating my nervous system, like over a period of time, granted, like in a kind of slow, more organic way, but I definitely feel like it was a very transformative process to like work with that medicine for a long time.
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And the other caveat is like, I've never done any of these medicines recreationally. So I've never gone to a festival and taken LSD or something. Like I've just always had like such a reverence for all of these things. And so I think I bring that intentionality to whatever medicine I'm working with, because to me, like, there is a lot of power and I'm and I'm not using it in like a, I'm not using it in a way of just recreation.
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wanting to heal and wanting to transform with them. So. Well, and I can understand, especially coming from where you come from with your background, you know? I think that, I think that, you know, recreation can be recreation. And I think there's a time and place for it, but I really honor the sacredness that you bring to it. And I think that, you know, there's, there's a place for all of it. But I think that from your perspective,
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sounds like you were like, I do not want to use this as an escapism. Like you want it to be present and in your body and intentional about it. So it's really, really beautiful. Um, so what was it like for me, micro dosing brings, like you're saying, like over the slow over, it not only reduces your depression and anxiety, but it builds for me resilience. Like over an 18 month period, I can imagine the type of resilience that
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There's things that come and happen along the way that can cause anxiety and can cause bouts of depression. But for me, it's like I've never sunk as low as I ever sunk before when those things come, right? Hallelujah. Like that's the difference. Yeah, I agree with you that this resilience was building and I think it was a confluence of factors that led to this really strong resilience and this inability to dip as low
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or to even get as kind of distracted or disassociated as I would normally get, right? There was this different kind of stability and this groundedness that started to permeate me. And I think it was the factors of working with the psilocybin, of working with the farming, of reconciling my relationship with the planet, which led to these two ayahuasca ceremonies and really purging things that were causing
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high highs and low lows. And I do feel a completely different stability and groundedness now, having been on this journey for a couple of years than I did before. Like in my body, like aware of my surroundings, connected to the lunar cycles in a much stronger way. Like it's full moon today, like really feeling the moon as it's coming and how it's affecting me.
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process. That's beautiful. And where were you doing this work when you were working with the land and all the different medicines? What was it called again? So, first I started in Puerto Rico and then I went to New Mexico and then I did work in Guatemala at Lake Atiflan and I was in Dominican Republic for a short time. Then I was on properties, different farm properties in California, New York and Florida.
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at the Chosen Retreat Center for a few months up in Sebastian, Florida. I was at Paradise Farms down in Homestead. Oh, I love Paradise Farms and Chosen Retreat too, but I love Paradise Farms. It's our neighborhood. Exactly. I was on a lot of different properties and worked the IA ceremonies I did at a center
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So a lot of different places like wherever I felt called to go or was invited to go. That's so beautiful. How have you managed to move in so many different spaces with your career? Like what's driven that and what's given you permission to do so? Because I think for so many listeners, like a lot of my audience is, you know, I come from the coaching space
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with, they can visualize what they want, but they have a lot of stuckness in the ability to move the needle or to do it, to reinvent themselves or to take a leap. And so what has given you this sense of permission and rebelliousness to choose yourself and to choose this curiosity? Where does that drive come from? It's such a good question. And it's one that I think about a lot because I don't want to
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there's like a cultural messaging, like just do it, you know, like live your dream, you know, and it's really challenging. It's a really challenging choice. It's a confrontational choice. It's a disruptive choice. It's a choice that's going to make some people around you
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So I don't take it lightly. The first time I really had to make the decision, I write about this in my book, All This Healing's Killing Me. The first time I had to make this choice was I had a college boyfriend that I was in love with. And I went to college in Pennsylvania. He wanted to just like get married and settle down and like do Pennsylvania life. And I got accepted into a graduate program in New York at Columbia.
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I wanted to do the graduate program. I wanted to do a PhD and I wanted to see the world. And it felt like I literally had two different lives in my hands. And it was really clear what the unfolding of those different lives was going to look like. What wasn't clear was that if I chose myself, would I find love again? Would I have love in my life? Or would it just be a life
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go anywhere, would I ever get a PhD and it was not an easy decision to make, but I couldn't not choose myself. I just had to. There was just something visceral and something compelling and calling me to do the thing that was the most purpose driven and meaningful to me.
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deepest sense of purpose is, like where I feel the most called, which doesn't mean that you don't make sacrifices along the way. Because if you're a woman that has some six figure job and you want to reinvent yourself as a hypnotherapist, or, you know, whatever it is you're trying to reinvent to, it doesn't mean that there isn't going to be growing pains in terms of losing income or like upsetting your partner or creating some instability or any of those factors.
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that stuff is very real. But what's nice about having access to you, I'm sure as a coach is that you help to normalize that for them, right and give them resources to manage the instability and insecurity as they go through the reinvention process. And so people like you and I serve as guides to help people make those transitions because we've done it and we've done it well, and we continue to do it and we can help others to
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that. I think that's the gift that we can give them. Yeah. And I think you said it. I think it's not about choosing just the vision you have for yourself or your goals or your purpose, because I think those things are almost exterior and the benchmarks that we have for them are like success benchmark, gold in the trick,
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things that are going to add to your purpose and give you satisfaction and joy. And simultaneously, you don't know if they'll come to fruition, but the one thing you said is like choosing yourself. And I think that's the thing is like within these choices, you have to constantly ask yourself, am I self abandoning by making this choice to stay in this situation or am I really choosing myself? Am I going to bet on myself? Because I know that without a doubt,
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trust myself, I will 100% always invest in myself, always choose myself. But to get to that place, you have to start big, right? You have to just brazenly boldly choose it. And it just like you're saying, it doesn't come without grief. It doesn't come without loss of something, whether that's grief and the relationship you're letting go of grief and your identity of who you used to believe you were, you know, your whatever it is your career or your relationship.
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a really beautiful way. And I think the key point is choosing yourself, recognizing that little person, that child within you and honoring her and allowing her to fully expand and grow and, and blossom into the thing that she's choosing and calling you to be, right? Which is your higher self, your higher purpose. So beautifully said. 100%. And I can't not say that
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I believe based on my work with women over the years that this can often be more challenging for women than for men. I think that I think that our culture and our social conditioning Makes it easier for men to pick themselves Like You know I just I Really believe based on the work that I've done and there's a lot of books about this
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like the confidence code is a great book about women. It's about all the little invisible ways that women are invited repeatedly to support others, to please others, to put others first, all the little ways that undermines the choosing of ourself. And so there's like a real diligence and mindfulness, I think that you need to bring to this process. Like there's gonna be a lot of other messages that you get
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contradictory to that message of choosing yourself. And so it's going to be important to keep your focus on the messages and surrounding yourself with the people that are going to reinforce that highest purpose for you. Well said. Boundaries, baby. It's one of the first things I do with my clients is say, let's define your edges.
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find yourself. Like where do you end and someone else begins and really inventorying the people and the influences in your life, what you're consuming, who you're spending time with, your relationships and unlocking the... Because that's what unlocks the door to your yes and your no and your inner voice, right? That's it right there. It's who you surround yourself with and what you allow inside.
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percent. I'm so happy to hear that you're doing that work with people. I am. I work with clients when they're reinventing their business. I work with clients when they're reinventing their lives and I do integration work with psychedelics. Now they're kind of all merging into one where it's the use of microdosing psychedelics or integrating a macros
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experience and now what are the next steps? Like, where are you going with this? How are you integrating this? How are you taking action on this? And who's along for this ride with you to really support that vision? Um, and it's been amazing cause I've done so many other things in my life. Like, like you, I've had a lot of different careers, a lot of different experiences traveled so much and it's so exciting cause they're finally all coming together in the psychedelic space. And like I said, in the beginning, I'm meeting so many women
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who had such similar experiences and I feel like I'm finally meeting my people where I'm not the only one in the room who's done this much work or transformed my life in so many ways. What else can people expect to see in the book and why should they buy this book? The book is beautiful. It's a really beautiful book. First of all, the cover is also gorgeous. It's covered in flowers.
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Yeah, it's a book that wanted to be in the world because as much as I resisted and and distracted myself, it just kept pursuing me. And so I think that that is meaningful. And I think that the reader will find herself in the book in some part of it because I keep having women coming up to me saying like, Oh, my relationship with my mother was similar to yours or my relationship with my father was similar to yours or like, Oh, I faced
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that same dilemma of choosing myself or choosing my partner. So I think there's a lot of touch points in the book that will resonate and will give you clarity about your own journey and your own experience. I also hope that the book is a catalyst for you to explore more of your own story because I think there's an incredible medicine in writing and I invite all women to write their own
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realize how far you've come and you don't even see these larger themes and lessons until you really put like the whole thing down on the page. And it's something that I'm hoping to facilitate in the future is like helping women to also write their own stories. I just got chills because I feel like that's what you were going to tell me because I'm like, I want to write a book like that. I want to tell my story. Like, please give us that knowledge.
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amazing. We will be here for that facilitation, whether it's a workshop, a course, a book, give it to us. Because I think I absolutely agree. It's insane, incredible, awe-inspiring when you sit down with a woman and hear her story. It is wild. Every single woman you know has much deeper story than what you see on Instagram or at the surface. Especially as I've become a mom, really getting to know these other women, you just can't label people.
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that story? I think we need those stories. I think the world needs those stories. I think women need to tell their story to themselves and they need to tell their story to others and they need to witness those stories. And that was like, when you go to the last chapter of my book and I have this like significant, like transformative experience, it was about the witnessing. It was about these other women hearing my story for the first time and surviving that.
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circle back to the very beginning of our conversation, where you mentioned the sort of terror of vulnerability. This is what we're all working towards. And this is really how that healing, like on a collective or global way will happen. It's like this level of vulnerability. And I really do believe that writing is a powerful tool to support that.
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And so I would love, love, love. I've already started a little bit here and there supporting women with their stories and hearing the impact that it has. And it's just so profound. And I would like to do more of that. Well, I'm here for it. And I would love to actually, I would love to do a workshop with you for my audience and just bring people in and say, this is how you tell your story and have you offer your, your tools on that. Because I do.
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I've done so many different coaching containers. I've worked with master, worked in, or I've been in masterminds. I've been with coaches. I've been in different conscious experiences. And it always starts with like writing your legacy. What is your mission? And I think the part that's missed is often, what is your story and where do you come from? Because like you're saying, it's not only just impactful for you to witness, like, holy shit, like I've overcome so much. I'm resilient.
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brings a lot of confidence, right? But it's also then how you connect to other people to be able to share that story vulnerably. And I think that every time I personally been asked to sit down and write my story, it's so overwhelming. I often don't know where to start. And so I have these one or two elevator pitch stories, but I think that it sounds like you would be really good at facilitating a very healing process, not just this is my brand story, right?
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And it's, I mean, there's so much I can say about it. I have been through the whole thing and I have all the tools and different tools work with different people and the process itself will be transformative and sometimes not so fun. There were things that I wrote about that I really had to implement a practice of self-forgiveness after writing about cause like I did some really dumb shit.
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stuff that hurt myself that hurt other people. And so there's like a there's a lot of there's a lot of process around really, really telling the story, right? Like, and and I think it informs your brand, like with the one client that I did have, she's a very high level health
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and she's like an Iron Man triathlete, all these things. And the story that she never told was about her father's suicide. And she worked with me over the course of several months to tell that story. And it lives on her website now. It's only 500 words. It's not, my memoir is, I don't know, 80,000 or something. Like hers is like 500 words, but those 500 words not only transformed her,
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or some of them come to her because they said, I read your story and I have to work with you. And it matters. It matters. You're giving other people permission to own who they are, to reveal who they are, to heal things that have been lingering for a very long time. There's so many layers to this that are really powerful. I can't wait. I can't wait to work with you in that way. OK.
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I also want to ask you one last question and then we'll have a few more questions. But as we wrap this up, All This Healing is Killing Me, I love the title and I think there's so much truth in it and then there's so much juxtapose in it because I don't know. I've been in this healing work for so long and at some point you have to start just being like, okay, I'm done with the healing cycle right now and I'm in action and I am done
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broken. And so like what part of that title, like what does that mean? Because there's layers, right? To me, I see healing like a coil. It's really, really tightly wound. That's why we keep experiencing patterns. And as you unwind the coil, it loosens up and the patterns are less frequent. But then every now and then you come back around a full circle and you're like, holy shit, I'm hearing this pattern again, right? And then you like unkink the loop.
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quickly and you're like, opportunities, I've healed it. And then all of a sudden you like circle back and you're like, I'm in a fucking pattern again. Right. And so I get like all this healing is killing me. Like that is like the gist of it. And then simultaneously, how do we know when it's time to like hang up the I'm broken and I'm healing title and like put it away for a little bit and just like be in awe of our wholeness? Like what is that juxtaposition? How do you explain that? Yeah. I mean, you just did a really, really good job of explaining it.
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the paradox of being human like right now, like, you're perfect right now, just as you are, you are, you know, God's creation, you're perfect, completely and totally whole and immortal and, and, like limitless. And, you know, maybe you spilled your coffee all over the kitchen this morning, and maybe your kid is mad at you. And maybe you're not making enough money, like, well,
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very true and also very real. And we're holding both of those simultaneously. And it's almost the tension of the two that keeps us in that creative process. It's almost that contrast that keeps us going. So that's one part of it. The other part of it is, you mentioned when you're working with clients is boundaries. And I've learned to put a boundary around my healing process where I'm not allowed to do it all day. Yes.
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I have told myself you get to be what in your shit for this amount of time or you scheduled it You know to work with someone on it at this time and you know what you're gonna do right now You're gonna pay your taxes. You're gonna answer your emails. You're gonna water the plants. You're gonna you know what I mean? Like I have also Learned over time to create boundaries and containers so that it's not
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time. It doesn't work all the time. But I'm training myself, right? It's like I'm trying to compartmentalize like, yes, you have healing work to do. But like, let's schedule joy. What does joy look like? Joy looks like, you know, I have a property where I do campfires. And so joy looks like everybody coming over and doing a fire and listening to music. And like, I'm not going to think about generational trauma during that time. Like, I'm, that's my joy time. So I think it's important
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get in the habit of, of, of making sure that even when you're doing healing work, that you have in the schedule, other things that make you feel productive, that make you feel joyful that, you know, that you're not overdoing it. I'm an overdoer. So I'm definitely an overdoer. It's so funny. My friend, my friend called me this morning. She's like, I just would, I was just trying to go to trader Joe's and then I was in an existential crisis. I
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I looked at my calendar wondering if my period was about to start. And all it says is full moon with two hearts. I should have said full moon schedule existential crisis. I was dying. And then we had a nice 20 minute chat and rant and she was back to her hearts and full moons and that was all we needed. She was like, okay. I was exchanging full moon texts with girlfriends yesterday and today too. Does anybody feel like this? Yes, I feel like this.
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like this. Exactly. It should be like full moon in parentheses. Reach out to your friends. Check on them. Collaborate on experience, or what we're all experiencing. Make sure we're OK. That's what full moon should say in our calendars. Perfect. And it's perfect. And I think that we had rituals around these celestial movements and stuff like that for this reason. Because there's a natural, just like your menstrual cycle
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process for the body. The reason our menstrual cycles are the same as the lunar cycles is because women have these natural rhythms and these rhythms have peaks in creativity and peaks in purging and peaks in emotion and peaks in productivity. All of that is just, it's very biological and it's very rhythmic. That was one of the things like getting back
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and the plants and all the things that help me to be aware that we can't always just arbitrarily impose this human schedule on everything that we're doing. We have to honor that the day of the full moon might not be the best day to have a lot of administrative work on the calendar. That might not be a good idea, and that's okay, because that's honoring what we actually are, which is human beings in this cosmic,
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environment. And I think it's beautiful. I think it's purposeful and important that we acknowledge that same. I'm trying to get into really honoring my cycle. It's been a little off the last few months just due to some stressors. So, I mean, it was the holidays, I think that screwed it up. And then it just kind of went from there. So I'm like trying to learn. And I'm trying to get into that
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and it's hard to unlearn. Let's just say it's not hard. It's challenging to unlearn that because we've been learning in a very patriarchal, linear, go, go, go world. And so I'm trying to schedule that in more and really honor those boundaries and that flow. And it's not the easiest one,
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I have an app for it, so now I can check. I'm like, okay, these are the symptoms that are coming up in my life. What is happening in my cycle? And then I can really honor it and not beat myself up so much about it. And I think that's a powerful tool too. Even if you can't schedule and arrange everything to really just be a witness to what's happening within you biologically, can help make more sense for yourself. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Yes.
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we wrap it up. What does rebellious reinvention mean to you? Well, it means you and it means me. And it means um,
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Yeah, it matches exactly what I learned from the women healers that I interviewed for my doctoral research. When I said to them, what is it to be a woman healer? What is it to you? They told me a lot of stories. They told me stories of what we're saying,
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of listening to nature, of overcoming health challenges, of beating breast cancer, of... Like, they told me all the stories about all the things. And at the end of the interviews, I said to them, "'So what you're saying is you are in this ongoing experience of growth and transformation throughout your whole life and your career.'" And they were like, "'Oh yeah, 100%.'" And I was like,
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telling me is that it's like a cyclical process. Like there'll be times where there is a lot of disruption and there is a lot of change. And then there's like a sense of mastery and like being in the flow with things. And then there's a sort of dying off and then the process will also repeat itself. Just kind of like how the female, you know, body works. And they're like, oh yeah, 100%. It's seasonal. And we're always in this process of reinvention and evolution over time. So if you're
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set yourself up for that, know that's what's gonna happen, and build the support structure around you that you need to be able to do that because you're gonna be doing it for a very long time. And to me, you have tapped into this same wisdom with Rebellious Reimension. You have found the same stories and the same information as I did in my research and explanation.
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it feels like we've landed in a very similar place, but coming at it from two different paths. Yeah, it does. It feels that way. It was so nice to have this conversation. I think that women listening are really going to hear themselves in your story, and it's so interesting because I feel like if I would have read, I don't know, your LinkedIn or something like that, I just, you would have been a really beautiful person with a really beautiful story.
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your book is a very similar feeling, like just reading the title and reading the description and hearing you talk about it. It's an every woman's story and it's timeless and it's this permission to explore and experience and reinvent and heal and to unpack it all and to be vulnerable
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effect. I feel like it's this beautiful permission slip and I haven't even read it yet. I wanted to come to your book launch so bad, but I was out of town or it is no, it's next. What's the date? May 22nd. Anybody and everyone is welcome. May 22nd at Books and Books in Coral Gables, Florida. There will be light bites and drinks and a conversation. I'm going to be interviewed by one of my teachers and mentors for a little bit during the event. And I
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It's just going to be a celebration. It's meant to be a celebration and everyone is welcome. So exciting. Well, thank you for your time and beyond thankful for you getting this book out and the work you do into the world because I think that it's people and women like you who've taken the time to collect all this knowledge and all of this experience and then to really unpack it and spend that time to organize it into words and edit it.
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into words is such a task and it does feel like it was birthed out of you. So congratulations on your new child. Thank you. I really appreciate you. And this was a really, really fulfilling conversation. Thank you so much. Every week we have a reoccurring segment and I share my favorite things. Tangible products to use, things to walk away with above and beyond the inspiration of these conversations. Think. What if our purpose was to flow like the wind
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freeze like the snow, thaw like water, and grow like grass. What if we could embrace our nature, our natural rhythms and evolutions? Would it reduce the shame, the stigma? Would we feel more free to explore, heal, nurture, and evolve? That is the world that I'm going for. So let's try this together now, shall we? Read. Let's read Dr. Gabby's book, you guys.
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It's called All the Healing is Killing Me, a memoir. Dr. Gabrielle Palicci shares in this deeply personal and vulnerable account. She reveals how childhood trauma impacts our physical and mental health as well as our adult relationship. She explores how you are only as sick as your secrets and telling your story is the medicine that can save your life. All this healing is killing me is a brave narrative that reckons with the hold of the past over the present.
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mind. You guys, not only was that conversation with Gabby so inspiring just to hear what she's experienced in her life and how she's grown. And I'm sure we get all of that in the memory of all of these nuanced experiences. But on top of that, the book positions itself for you to go out and tell your story. So please go buy her book. We need more women, more voices being shared,
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love the book if it feels like Gabby. Trust me. Thank you guys for listening. Please subscribe and share. And if you're feeling extra generous, write a review. I read every one of my reviews and I'm thinking about adding a little moment to the beginning or not the beginning, but to this podcast and where I would read your review. So if you would like your words shared with the world, drop a review.
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Don't forget, question everything, baby.